What's fair?

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Permalink Reply by J S Gilbert on December 15, 2008 at 5:35pm

fairness is a subject that is quite near and dear to my heart. In fact it comes up somewhat often in my posts.

Years ago I worked for someone who employed a fairly convoluted commission program. Only until after having worked with him for 6 months did I realize that it was nearly physically impossible to do the top numbers that would bring in the huge piles of cash, although as one started working toward those numbers it might seem attainable for quite some while.

It almost literally came down to their simply not being enough hours in the day or days in the week.

I prepared pie charts and graphs and came up with all sorts of alternatives that to me were much more fairly constructed.

I amrched into the bosses office and simply said "This commission scheme you have isn't fair and I have some alternatives I'd like to discuss."

The bosses response was impossible to predict and he said "Fair? Nothing in theis universe is fair and I resent you asking me to be the exception."

I believe I muttered more than a few expletive deletives as I headed out of his office and left the building.


Many, many years later I look back and realize that yes, he was (and probably still is) a complete ass, but the truth is that fairness is completely subjective.

The very truth is that there is nothing in the universe that could be considered fair, just those things we cherish, some things we accept, others things we reject and many things we fight to have be different.

Those of us who have spent any time in 12 step programs understand that for many of us our problems stem from constantly wanting things to be fair. Fair for you is very different from fair for me and for him or her.

Some of the most "unfair" things are found in advertising and in the underbelly of casting and hiring voice actors. ONe of these is that around 25% - 30% of the overall work seems to be designed for women. But then, there are more men in voiceover, so isn't this fair?

Voiceover, which regards hiring someone for how they sound has for a long time been handled in a face-to-face situation. Agency people or clients or combinations thereof would go to a studio and talent and an engineer would be there and they cold see each other. And oddly, it seemed that for the most part, the voice actors that worked the most tended to be the more attractive ones, in particular with the women.

Doesn't particularly sound fair does it?

Oh and what about the woman producer who playe my audition for her boyfriend to copy so that she could hire him instead of me. Or the guys that get hired becuase they're gay and the client is - or how about born again Christians being hired by born agains to do v.o. work, even though the subject matter may not have anything to do with religion.

As the economy has slumped and production companies have to get more creative with bids, is it fair that writers and art directors are doing voiceover?

And this is just v.o.

Is it fair that thousands of kids will die of malnutrition today? Or fair that some creepy banker will rip off 100,000 people and yet get to keep 20 million?

The sooner we realize that fairness is a myth, the better it serves us to simply and impassionately be able to ask for what we want and walk away fro that which doesn't tend to serve us.

Although as someone who practices embracing the 4 Buddhist truths, of which the false concept of fairness is one, I find it is a very, very difficult task.


As for your actual question. "Is it authority? power? persuasion? What is it?", I think it is simply opinion. There's another saying that goes "It is harder to change a person's mind than it is to make a sun rise." I would remind you that Black's got the vote before women did and also the presidency.

It is hard to try and make a career in voiceover when you look at each audtion as a bag of groceries. This is why I always recommend that everyone make a business and marketing plan. And remember the nicest thing about banging your head against the wall is stopping.

Okay, did anybody get any of what I just said or was I just rambling?

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Permalink Reply by Vicki Amorose on December 16, 2008 at 1:01pm

JS--I follow. Fairness as an absolute does not exist. We can all become very whiny in our desire for the ideal of fairness.
But, what we can pursue, respect, recognize and create is the ATTEMPT at fairness.

Here's an example. The book Blink by Malcolm Gladwell discusses the decision making process. He describes the audition process for orchestras worldwide. 'Classical music was the domain of white men until very recently. Women, it was believed, could not play like men. They didn't have the strength, the attitude, or the resilience for certain kinds of pieces. Their lips were different. Their lungs were less powerful. their hands were smaller. That did not seem like a prejudice. It seemed like a fact, because when conductors and music directors and maestros held auditions, men always seemed to sound better than the women.'
Then there was a push for fairness among musicians. A radical new audition process was formalized. 'An official audition committee was established instead of a conductor making the entire decision. Musicians were identified by number instead of name. Screens were erected between the committee and the auditioner--and if the musician made any kind of identifiable sound---if they were wearing heels or cleared their throat--they were ushered out and assigned a new number. And as these new rules were put into place around the country, an extraordinary thing happened: orchestras began to hire women....In the past thirty years, since screens became commonplace, the number of women in the top US orchestras has increased fivefold."

The book is not about fairness, I'm just using this example to illustrate how the ATTEMPT at fairness can, eventually, change everything. Now I go to see my local orchestra and it is about 50% female. If I went to see the orchestra and it was all men, it would seem weird and questionable. There has been a shift in perception about how an orchestra should be comprised.
An ATTEMPT at fairness has resulted in some actual fairness, and that has resulted in a cultural shift in perception. Huge, measurable change was affected--because artists believed in fairness.

I know you're probably arguing that there is no equivalent in the world of voice-over to that orchestra audition process.
I would argue that we can, at least, think about that.
What could lead to shift in perception so that it sounded weird to have nearly every documentary narrated by a man?

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Permalink Reply by Claire Dodin on December 16, 2008 at 3:02pm

To be honest, I've never really noticed any discrimination in this business towards women.
Ok, men do all the movie trailers, but women do pretty much all the IVRs. I'd grant you that they are not the same pay, but there are far more IVR systems than movies.
It also seems that most lifts, software, trains, toys etc... are female too.
Also, I disagree about the documentaries and film narrations being exclusively male. I've done many documentaries, I've also done narrations for films and heard many female do it too. I don't know what the statistics are though, but I don't feel left out.
Over all, it looks to me that the vo business is pretty fair, compared to general jobs.
My mum is a business woman, and in her world discrimination against women is very real.
In my vo world, I feel happy and treated very well by most.

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Permalink Reply by J S Gilbert on December 16, 2008 at 3:53pm

Again, it's all about perception. IN fact, if you were to contact SAG or AFTRA, you would find out that the numbers for men are much higher, not in terms of actual applied scale payments, but the number of jobs for women vs. for men. Additionally, scale payment represents the minimum for which women are hired and a friend who is an agent has indicated that it is often easier to get scale and a half for male talent than female.

If one persumes that the universe is infinitely abundant and that they will be provided for and get their share of "good things", then it is conceivable that this person will look upon life as bountiful, while someone else may actually be granted more opportunity, wealth, etc. and yet come from a place of "never having enough".

The entertainment industry tends to get away with many things that other indutries don't, such as specifying gender, race and other characteristics. I suppose one could debate forever what exactly is meant and various implications of voiceover scripts that state "Only hiring authentic African American voice actors."

It has also ben standard practice to employ women doing the voices of kids in cartoons. This doesn't seem fair to child actors.

Again, fairness is an interesting concept and you will often hear people say "all things being equal..." Of course all things aren't equal. Is the election of Obama a sign that prejudice and racism is gone in America or is it a sign that over 50% of Americans cae less for having an OLD president than an Afircan American president?

And realize that nearly half of the people who voted didn't vote for Obama. Does this send any kind of particular messaage? What about those who didn't vote?

Look at the actors over the age of 50 and see if there is a "fair" representation across the board in television, film and voiceover.

Back to the story of the implementation of the screen to hire orchestra members. Perhaps we were to work on the assumption that bowing to pressure, men decided to erect this screen in the belief that it would prove the point that male musicians are superior. The motivation was not to be "fair", but to contnue a policy that they falsely believed to be accurate. Unfortunately they got "caught" and there was nothing to do about it. I would believe that if they knew the implementation of the screen would cause that dramatic a rise in the hiring of female musicians that they would have found excuses for not doing it and would have looked to create some other from of hiring processthat could prove they were right.

Many people who establish drug testing programs don't look to develop impartial data, but data that substantiates the investment in and development of drugs. If you look at all of the "impartial" tresting done by the tobacco indusry, one might buy that smoiking is actually good for many people.

I personally dislike the sound and style of read that most of the network promo guys do. I'm also not a big fan of wooden stick up the butt sounding voice mail and IVR and I don't particularly care forthe way that many radio jocks deliver a commercial read.

This is my opinion and clearly one that isn't shared by the majority. There will need to be some big "change maker" step forward and determine that something be done differently to the tune where others will follow.


Or perhaps if enough people decided not to watch a particula network or show or boycotted movies or stopped pressing 2 for technical support - ie. this starts to negatively impact someones bottom line,...

then we might expect some sort of change. In the meantime we will get gravely voiced slow reads that use dramatic punctuation and pause on ever syl a ble telling us that it's a very special episode of ER tonight.

As someone who both works as a voice talent and hires voice talent, the sad thing is that I find myself tivoing all of the promos and the spots. Oddly enough a report came out a year ago and indicated that something like 75% of all broadcast commercial producers tivo the commericals and something like 15% or so admitted to not owning a tv.

In a business that is nothing but someone (or a group of someones) opinion, there is a lot of discrimination that takes place. Sometimes this discrimination takes place when applying filters to make things "fair".

Is it fair that my tax dollars went to bail out banks who today announced they are giving $4 million dollar bonuses to numerous executives.

I still contend that many of our inner turmoils come from viewing (or judging) things as either fair or not fair and from working hard to try and impart fairness into everything.

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Permalink Reply by Stephanie Ciccarelli on December 17, 2008 at 9:27am

Vicki, interesting thoughts. I think we should explore them further. Thank you for sharing :)

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Permalink Reply by Vicki Amorose on December 17, 2008 at 2:09pm

Thanks Stephanie, if we explore this further on Vox Daily or elsewhere, we need to get ahold of SAG/ AFTRA and some big agents, as JS suggested, and get some real numbers in front of us.

Yes, Claire--I, too have done narration; but what I'm looking for are the female counterparts to Will Lyman or Peter Coyote, recognized voices of wisdom, gravity, and authority.

And JS, I cannot disagree with anything you've said. But I have to yank your chain a little here. When you say, "I still contend that many of our inner turmoils come from viewing (or judging) things as either fair or not fair and from working hard to try and impart fairness into everything...."

Can't the same thing be said of the attempts you make to impart high standards of performance into everything? and to judge casting and production decisions as either good, bad or mediocre?

We all need to judge by some standards. Those standards may be accurately defined as unattainable, the attempts at those standards an exercise in futility, but our standards and what we strive to create are the things that make us who we are.
Again, the attempt is what matters.

I also agree that our biz is highly imitative, and I get bored by the same old reads, too. So maybe there will be a 'big change maker" in the near future. And maybe that change will impart a little fairness, and we'll both get what we want for Christmas.

Thanks for speaking up.

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Permalink Reply by J S Gilbert on December 18, 2008 at 2:05pm

Vicky,
Well, I'm glad you see I'm on your side. Perhaps it might seem like it comes down to semantics, but if that is the appearance or if I seem duplicitous, then I apologize and I beleive I mention words to the effet of that I try to practice an understanding that things aren't fair. It's a very difficult construct.

I am sure that a lot of my aspiring to high standards and expecting, if not demaning it from others comes from some place dep inside of me that might dwell on insecurities and/or other "baggage" I've attained along the way.

I also paint as a hobby and I can tell you that I suffer the same fate of most artists - making the first brush stroke and deciding that a particular brush stroke will be my last. There is no such thing as perfection. You make an incredible piece of art and the next time you strive to make one that's even better. (if not the next time then the time after that, etc.)

And despite how well someone might be doing at any given pursuit, you can look over your shoulder at someone else in the same or related field who is doing better than you and suddenly feel vey much less than.

ANd while I think that new laws should be made and old laws abandoned that by doing so may cause more of an equitable situation for some people, it is clear that not much about the way our society functions is "fair".

Is it fair that I use very little resources, such as schools or parks or libraries and yet I pay more in taxes for these things (because I have no children) , while someone with 2 kids gets to write them off as tax deductions?

The mistake is that most people believe we are a democracy and in truth the United States was formed as a republic.

While it's true that many good and well intentioned individuals got caught in the corss hairs of the housing bust and now look at having greater debt on their homes than the value of the home itself, it is clear that a large number of problems stemmed from greedy bankers loaning money they shouldn't and from greedy individuals who purchased homes they couldn't afford simply becuase they felt the homes would appreciate more in 6 months than they might be able to earn in 2 years by working a regular job.

People like me are paying the price in many ways. NOT FAIR.

I could go on and on about health care and many other basic services, but then again nothing is fair. And it will no be the rich that will paying their fair share for the bailout of this nation, it will once again fall to being the burden ot the middle and upper middle class - as it always has regardless of democrat or republican in office.

So, while I personally (and in no way loooking at a personal gain) would like to see some sweeping changes to the way the entertainment industry and ad insustry function and along with them voiceover and women's place in voiceover, I simply am saying it needs to be looked at froim a different construct than "making things fair".

Perhaps your question is better asked as "How should it be?"

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Permalink Reply by J S Gilbert on December 19, 2008 at 1:06pm

Big difference between acting "fairly" and with integrity.

One of the given definitions for integrity is the quality or state of being of sound moral principle; uprightness, honesty, and sincerity.

Fairness of course is completely subjective and one can say that as long as you were paid for that job, then it was "fair". After all the recordings are their property to do with as they see fit. I can't begin to count the number of projects I have performed v.o. for that have never seen the light of day for varities of reasons.

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Permalink Reply by Cindy Clifford on December 30, 2008 at 8:11am

Getting a jump on my new year's resolution (the same one every year; learn more, delve deeper, express gratitude, expand my horizons and QUIT PROCRASTINATING)... I'm finally going to answer this question.
Yes, as a female voiceover artist, I think the business is fair. Mostly.
When I first started in the industry is was totally dominated by men. Female VO's were few and far between, if present at all.
But there were some jobs a man just couldn't do, which cracked the door open a tiny bit. My first job? An uber-sexy nightclub read.
There were times that I lost work to men. The Avis spot hurt the most- my first crack at a national spot and they tested me against a Voice of God. I lost.
Since then there have been jobs that could have gone to men but went to a woman (me) instead because of what I could bring to the read or because the client could think out of the box.
Just as there are reads that belong to men alone, there are plenty that scream for a woman. But from the perspective of one woman who has seen the industry open thier arms to her gender, it seems fair enough to me.
Now if I can just follow through on those resolutions...

And to all of my Voice Peeps, wishing you great scripts, a warm mic and happy headphones for 2009.

Cindy Clifford

PS- JS, love the new look!

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