Best LEAD Site? Voice123, Voices.com or _____ ???
I would like to get your input on the best site for leads. I have done well with Voice123, but lately they are getting a little weird on me, and giving fewer audition opportunities in order to "be fair". Voices.com is about to pass Voice123 in the number of jobs I get, and the auditions are easier there (no multiple screens asking if "I'm really sure about auditioning for this job") But are there others that fair even better?
George
George
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by George McNerlin on -
Steven,
With all due respect, I think your answer to my last input demonstrates the problem. I expressed a practical problem, and you responded with a technical solution (e.g. demos 7, 8, & 9 are missing information). That's almost like saying "the reason your car doesn't start is because you did not spray Quick Start in the carburetor" I'll just go buy a car with fuel injection and not have to worry about the carburetor. This is (maybe for a little longer) a free market system. People are seeking ways to get the most results with the least technical effort. Voices.com is not always telling me I must dot my i's and cross my t's. They are simply allowing me to audition for lots of jobs. And I am working hard and getting some of them. "Those who makes it simple, win"
On the other hand, I have managed an ad agency with offices in 4 cities. I was very involved in the creative process. I still hire talent occasionally. I want all the people qualified to audition for my project within a fair amount of time. If I find out there is company (like V123) with a quota system to "make it fair" I probably will not use that company. Eventually as other producers begin to get wind of how you operate, they will, like me, begin to look for other sources of talent. Sources where they can get the best possible talent for the investment. It's just good business.
Again, I thank you for your service, and will probably use it as long as it pays for it's self. I just wish you were more user friendly, and would consider making some needed changes.
George McNerlin
7 Voices Media
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Permalink Reply by David Seys on -
Dear Steven.....this is an open letter to you......I am posting on this blog post as it is the most recent and you seem to be following it.
On one of the blogs, you have just written 'If you ever wish to ask me any questions, please do so. I will always give you my best'.
A few months ago, I wrote to you about the Smartcast system and how to keep within the average and get the best opportunity for jobs you could only do one audition every 4 days. I confirmed this applied to Americans, Australians and Brits and gave you detailed figures. I had the usual fob off from you and I asked to have a telephone conversation with you at a time that would be convenient. You agreed, but of course nothing happened. Two emails and a few weeks later, you told me that you would definitely call me, that you were snowed under with work and that there was some personal drama within your company. Since then nothing. That summed up the culture of Voice123 and I could not be bothered to take the crusade any further as I had better things to do.
Over here in the UK, we are in the middle of a big scandal over members' of parliament's expenses claims. The public is outraged, but the MPs just don't get it. There is obviously a feeling building up about Voice123, the SmartCast system and the lack of respect for the voices who provide your living. And from your replies and attitude, I don't think you get it either. Perhaps you could all sit round a table and have a good discussion about this.
I get plenty of work from Voice123 which doesn't seem to come much from the Smartcast system and I consider my subscription to be worthwhile, but it doesn't make for anything but an irritating environment to work in. I just wish you would listen more carefully to comments, do what you say you will do and not dole out the stock answers.
David Seys
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Permalink Reply by Steven Lowell on -
Point well-made by you both: George, you must understand. I am explaining a system quirk to help you get invited more, which you stated yourself was not happening as much. The system I try diligently to explain is not done to give stock answers, or blow people off.
I wish to explain something, and hope you read this to get a better understanding as to what I am doing, why I do it, and what I deal with.
In my last job before this one, I was working in an insurance office for AIG. At some point, they 'automated' the process. I was dealt the task of training people how to use this automated system. It was not fun. Here's why:
I am 35 years old. The insurance adjusters who were older than me complained that I did not understand what it meant to be an insurance adjuster because I had to walk them through how to use technology. They enjoyed paper files while the growing trend was for corporations to 'go green'. I sat through and explained intricate details, NOT to insult them, but because I knew the bottom line...if they did not learn, they would lose their jobs & not make money. Oh, not to mention, possibly get in legal trouble during a state audit.
Point.....If you know how to work with technology and computer systems, in this case SmartCast, it makes doing the basic voice over copy reading and recording easier. That will help you get more auditions, to get paid more, invited more etc.
Yet, at AIG, I was constantly bombarded with complaints even though I did not create it, that the automated insurance system did not work from certain adjusters who were new to computers, while the people I trained from 25-35 years old had an easier time adapting, BUT they did not have the skill and mindset of the adjusters older than 35. If I quit, and said, 'They are right. We should stick to the old way.' I would fail them & myself because like it or not, at some point they had to learn. Technology never ever ever goes in reverse.
I have the deepest respect for anyone with knowledge and experience. Sitting on the fence of a generation gap is not fun when one side is saying the technology is 'great' (and they do...trust me...) and the other side states it is just a waste of time, the old simple way works, and they should do things like they used to do it.
Me, I don't love computers. I work with them because like it or not, I know its the future, so I learning to protect my future.
Everyone you talk to in your circle may think 'Steven doesn't get it', but you are really making a mistake in thinking this way.
My task is to help people get work, and that involves many times teaching people how to use a system that they don't like or understand. Even if I don't like some things about it, does that mean I am going to not try and get work anymore.
David, I dont give stock answers. In fact, that gets me in trouble more times than you would believe. If I may make an appeal for some understanding....the reason Voice123 looks like a big machine is because Alex is great at innovating technology and automated things.
Here are some facts though you may not be aware of:
We have only 8 people working at Voice123.
5 customer service.
2 managers
1 former talent with the website.
We don't have a call center.
Voice123 has over 77,000 active profiles for talents
Voice123 has over 50,000 voice seekers registered.
4,000 paying members.
I work 6 days a week, 14 hours a day, and always have since I started here in July 2007. I am writing this now at 9pm awaiting a server migration to speed up the website.
I make a NYC teacher's salary at best, and no commission off of any jobs you book through Voice123. I cant audition on Voice123 due to conflict of interest, and no other casting site allows me to use theirs because I work here.
I have helped thousands of people get work, and do things to help talents get paid when something is not right, and help seekers when they lose contact with talents.
This job has been both a blessing to my life for the people I have helped and met, and at the same time, it has days where it is thankless. We make our choices and we live with them, and that is life.
If I never got in touch with you, I did not actively decide not to do it. It just happened, and I am sorry. You also live in England, 6 hour ahead of me, and my day does not free up until 9pm EST since we extended our customer service hours again. I know that phone calls are great ways to reach out to people, and I miss them, but every 1 person I talk to on the phone for 1 hour, means 100 talents are not being helped.
I also sit at the center of a major feedback hub, and answer 5000 emails a month, so trust me...I am highly aware of who feels what, believes what, and yes...I more than 'get it'. I joined Voice123 in 2005. I complained about budgets, jobs posted, etc. just like everyone else. I did all the things, thought all the things, and complained about the very same things that people did.
When the job opportunity opened up, I saw an opportunity to make some positive changes and be there for talents who needed my help. I also found out ... its not as easy as I thought it would be. My mission and quest to find answers and solutions has cost me, but the education I have about what REALLY happens in online casting has been amazing. I know things that people are afraid to admit I know (a major factor in other sites not allowing me to join by the way).
To be honest, if you think I don't listen, you have under estimated me.
One of my major reasons I was hired was because I have almost a 'Rainman' skill for remembering names, faces, and things people said on what date, like a computer, which comes in handy when you answer 5000 emails a month (not including 1000 personal one's from people seeking advice) from over 120,000 people.
Psychologically speaking, I also know my words will be picked apart because I write as much as I do, instead of someone actually saying, 'You know, maybe I should listen. He did what I did, and now he works there.'
I dont expect people to listen to me until they have made the decision that they want to listen. At AIG, I had to also teach people who made 6-figure salaries, how to use a computer system to manage travel expenses. I overheard one Senior VP say in a training, 'Do we really need to listen to this training from this kid?' as he walked out. This same guy called me at my desk for help several days later. And I still helped him anyway...like then & now...its my job.
My bottom line is that I am going to always try to help as best I can. If what I say irritates any of you, it does not mean I don't understand.
It means that I am looking past that which is irritating, WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE NOW of what can be changed, when, how, and what to do in the meantime. Basically, focusing on a solution, so you can make money from Voice123.
You can believe what you want, but I fight for talents in ways you cannot even imagine, regardless of how they feel, what they say, or websites they belong to.
I apologize if this sheds a negative tone on this post. I may have hi-jacked it.
You know where to email me, if you need help. I said enough and wont follow-up on this post again.
Best regards,
Steven
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Permalink Reply by George McNerlin on
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Steven,
The three categories that you spoke of are “Southern Expression”, “Darth and Picard”, and “Santa and Tess”. The three descriptive slots that I “fail” to fill in are “recording category”, “voice ages”, and “my own pre, post or production”. Those three categories have added up to less than 2% of my clients needs on any of my sites. This is NOT why I’m getting fewer auditions!
On the other hand, I probably have more technical expertise than most of your clients, having built my own studio. Steven you have, again, blamed one of your customers for the problem. Do you not see a pattern here? The king really has no clothes on.
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Permalink Reply by Dave Steele on -
A bad experience.
Years ago I paid the premium subscription for Voice123.com, only to find that every single person on planet earth could audition for anything. If you were trying to get a little extra work on Voice123.com, it was sometimes very hard unless you were the first 10 to 15 auditions. No voice seeker had time to listen to the 300+ that were submitted.
So, I let my subscription expire.
Within the last 2 months, I began to inquire about the site again. I had many bad feedback emails from friends. I decided to chat with Voice123.com support to ask some very pointed questions about the service.
I was assured that the "Smartcast" technology would increase the ability for me to get better exposure on auditions with all of its astounding formulas and calculation. Even on the website, the "Smartcast" information page gives elaborate explanation about its ability to match talent, sift through the voice pool and match the best talent with the seeker.
This I believe is complete nonsense. Save your money. I have chat logs from Voice123.com that basically confirm at the heart of the "Smartcast" technology, exists nothing more than a rotation wheel for talent. If you audition for material, you get kicked to the back of the pile. Now, of course it is not THAT simple, but that is a big part of it.
So, I complained. I got the diplomatic answer. I posted the question to the Voice123.com forum... guess what. I got kicked back to a standard member and my paid membership revoked.
It was like censorship. I inquired, they said I violated the Voice123.com forum policy. I asked where the policy was, I couldn't find it. Guess what, there wasn't a posted policy. They couldn't show me.
Has anyone else had a bad run with Voice123.com - I am just dumbfounded at this unbelievable turn of events.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Fletcher on -
I know this thread is a bit old, but I am also evaluating where to invest online. Right now I do V123 and Voices.com.
It seems I ma getting just the opposite from the rest of you. V123 has done me pretty well this year with good solid jobs and repeat customers from those jobs.
Voice.com on the other hand is a total meat market, and I swear that unless you respond within 10 minutes you are well over the 15th or even 20th mark. I did just book a job there last week and the seeker told me within minutes he had generic auditions back.
Now just like Forrest, I'm not a smart man, but I know what love...er ... web pages are. There HAVE to be people running a bot submitting generic auditions. Heck I have even thought about it myself! Something smells fishy there and that could easily be fixed by adding one of those "The the letters you see in the graphic below" widgets on the submission page. I wonder if that would slow the rate down a bit.
For me, Voices.com is out, and I'm shopping for a new one to go along with V123. I agree V123 needs to be improved a bit, but it is paying for itself.
Again apologies for resurrecting this thread after it's dormancy.
Fletch
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Permalink Reply by George McNerlin on
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Fletch, thanks for you input. You do what works for you. Voice123 still more than pays for it's self to me, so I will continue to use that source. Some of us have just been frustrated with it's limits. There are no such limits, to me, with Voices.com. I have also been with VO Planet for over a month without any jobs. But if I get a few within the next year, it will have payed for it's self. I will post here if/when VO Planet pays off.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Fletcher on
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Thanks George. I just need to fugure out why Voices is not working for me as well as others.
Fletch
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Permalink Reply by Randy Savage on -
Like Mark, I've had pretty good success with Voice 123. I joined early in 2008 and made my money back within about 4 weeks if I remember correctly. Ironically, of the 70 auditions I submitted in the past year, I only booked about 5 or 6 gigs (maybe because I refused to audition for the cheap gigs), but several of those clients have contacted me directly for additional projects. One of the interesting things I can say is that the whole process opened my eyes to the types of work I would get. Coming from a commercial VO/production base, I assumed I'd be booking tons of commercial gigs. But actually 90% of my work was in narration, and I NEVER booked an actual commercial! That helped me to take another look at what I had to offer in that area, and to feature my narration work more than I had been up to that point.
Towards the end of my subscription period, the auditions and gigs seemed to dry up quickly (that was in the first quarter of this year). I haven't renewed yet, as I'm considering a few other services to try out over the next year. Yeah, there are *lots* of things that are frustrating about Voice123, it's a massive numbers game, and you've got to be Quickdraw McGraw with your auditions... but I think in the long run my experience with them was more positive than negative.
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Permalink Reply by George McNerlin on
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V123, is getting more frustrating for me than even before. In the last week, I went 5 days in a row without a single audition opportunity. In the same time period I got lots of audition opportunities and 3 jobs from Voices.com!
I would like to ask others reading this, if you've ever gone 5 days without an audition opportunity using V123? That seems a little much to me, and never happened before. Maybe a computer glitch?
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Permalink Reply by Dave Steele on
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This is because of the "Smartcast" system... which is basically a rotation wheel for talent. You audition... you get kicked to the back of the bus so everyone else can have a turn.
When I posted a question obout that tactic on the Voice123.com forum... The yanked my premium membership and kicked me back to standard.
Crazy. Stick with voices.com
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Permalink Reply by Dave Steele on
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Voice123 in my opinion is a great concept with incredibly poor customer relations, service and management skills. Seems to me they make up rules on the fly.
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