Best LEAD Site? Voice123, Voices.com or _____ ???
I would like to get your input on the best site for leads. I have done well with Voice123, but lately they are getting a little weird on me, and giving fewer audition opportunities in order to "be fair". Voices.com is about to pass Voice123 in the number of jobs I get, and the auditions are easier there (no multiple screens asking if "I'm really sure about auditioning for this job") But are there others that fair even better?
George
George
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Diane Merritt on -
You are not alone. Voice 123 is getting weird for many I'm sure - including me. Voices.com has passed Voice 123 in my eyes. I am wondering if I am even going to make enough through Voice 123 to even cover the dues. I belong to VO Planet. They are fair, but not as many auditions and I have yet to land anything through them. I am weighing my options with them and leaning towards Bodalgo. But still have not made up my mind.
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Permalink Reply by George McNerlin on -
Diane, I will admit that V123 has been a good investment, and is worth the dues. But, it seems like, for 4 years, I could do unlimited auditions until about 6 months ago. Then fewer and fewer auditions, almost like, "now that we got this guy hooked, we'll cut him way back on auditions". I had not read the fine print about the fairness thing, or the fact that what you audition for is what auditions you will (maybe) get in the future. Example: I want to do a low paying job because it's a cause I believe in, so then I start getting the low pay auditions - that's crazy! BTW, I did not know that VO Planet even had an audition service, thought it was just a place to meet other VO people and share ideas. Also, never heard of "Bodalgo", keep us posted on that one. Do you have an agent? I don't, but have been told I should.
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Permalink Reply by Diane Merritt on
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A letter I recieved today from Voice123.com and my reply...
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Lowell
To: DianeMerritt@MerrittMediaProductions.com
Sent: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 5:10 am
Subject: Re: Voice123 Follow Up (sent to DianeMerritt@MerrittMediaProductions.com)
Hello Diane,
I am Steven Lowell from Voice123. You have been using our system for a while as
a Premium Subscriber. Would you mind sharing with us how you feel about our
service? Have you found a positive return on your investment? Is there something
you think we can do to improve your experience with us?
I know that your time is very valuable. When you have the chance, will you
please let us know what we can do to make our service more pleasing to use?
Thank you Diane!
Steven Lowell
Public Relations Manager
Voice123
Hello Steven.
Voice 123 helped me get a jump start into the voice over industry beyond my local market. I have gotten repeat clients on board because of it - in the beginning. But that right now it's the only good thing I can say about Voice 123. I was always to believe Voice123 was above the other pay to play services. But with all the changes, the others have bypassed Voice 123 with flying colors. I am even wondering if I will get enough jobs through Voice 123 to even cover my dues. When I have friends who want to join, I tell them the good and the bad about the sites and that it's their call, but in the end I always wrap up the conversation with, I would join Voices.com first. We pay for your service. We should not be penalized for auditioning to much - we want to work! And because we pay you, we should be able to use what we pay you for! And just the opposite, If a talent pays you and only wants to audition once a year - that's their right. We shouldn't be penalized for how much or how little we use the site.
Now, I don't use the word "hate" very often. It is a terrible word. I usually say I dislike something very much. But I will say - I hate the rating system verbiage you use. I do not feel it helps us at all. The star system was fine. I remember when you started using verbiage and the worst one was "Bad". Then the company changed the verbiage to "not likely" or "You won't be considered". When I got my first bad - I was fairly new to Voice 123. I was so shocked to get "bad" my then 12 year old daughter came running into my studio asking why I was crying. I was devastated. Telling my Daughter - OMG - I suck - I should just get out of the business. If it weren't for my daughter I would have. I had to learn "you can't please them all" and now when I see the "not likely" or "you won't be considered" I laugh at the ridiculous rating system and yet another way for Voice 123 to use the bad ratings to penalize us with percentiles. I was remarking to another talent the other day as she was so excited to see "Likely Hiring" that I laugh at those too. They mean nothing. How many have I gotten and never hear from the seeker.
Voice 123 has gone downhill big time. I am not the only one who questions 123, just look around at the voice over forum sites and see what they are saying about your company. I am on the fence about rejoining. I might give it another year - I still don't know. I know one thing - I do not even question about rejoining Voices.com - they do not penalize us when we pay them to help us find jobs.
Let's see - what is your verbiage? Likely Hiring...Maybe...Considering...Not Likely...You wont be considered... - because I am on the fence - Voice 123 get's a Not Likely for me. Now what are you going to do with this letter? Are you going to look at my opinions and consider changes? Or are you going to penalize me even more?
Diane Merritt
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Permalink Reply by Cindy Clifford on -
Small world, Diane! I just got the very same letter from our friend Steve... and wrote back a strikingly similar response. Although in my case, it was 'You won't be considered' that was like a slap across the face. A short time later when Voice123 added the detail of how many share the same (miserable) rating, I was somewhat consoled but stunned to see that 50 other voice talents had recieved the same slap/rating. Really, doesn't that just seem wrong, especially given that we're advised that the ratings factor in to the auditions we are ultimately offered? I sure think so.
And oddly, I haven't heard back from Steve in response to any of my comments and concerns. Have you?
Cindy
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Permalink Reply by Diane Merritt on
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And in all fairness - their response
Diane,
Honestly, if you think that we make it a daily practice to penalize people, when what you deal with are safeguards to protect the 4000 auditioning talents, I think this system has truly gotten to you without you understanding why things are done.
I always listen to what people tell me, but to say something like this: "Or are you going to penalize me even more?"...means that you believe more in conspiracy than truth.
I am sorry it has worked out this way. I do free system trainings on how to better use Voice123, because it has changed since you started here, and is now more competitive.
When something stops working for you, it is time to investigate why. Even Voices says that too.
In case this message does not fully answer your question, or if you have further comments, simply reply to it, please.
Please remember that your return of investment is our highest priority. Feel free to contact our Customer Service with your questions, comments or ideas. We will be pleased to hear from you and will work hard to ensure your satisfaction.
Voice123's goal is to provide you with the best customer service experience possible, we value your opinion. Please use this link to rate the response you received in this email.
Sincerely,
Steven Lowell
Toll Free US & Canada: 1.877.275.8642
New York & International: (+1) 212.461.1873
P.O.BOX 1167, Secaucus NJ 07094
http://voice123.com
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Permalink Reply by George McNerlin on
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Diane, You certainly spoke for many of us in your letter. Unfortunately, their response tells me that they still don't get it. I wrote a letter giving V123 many options to help them become a win/win service. I said "if you don't change you will go from number 1 to obscurity". With the competition that will come, sadly, it looks like it will be the latter.
Thanks so much for sharing with us!
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Permalink Reply by Dennis McGeady on -
I agree with both of you! I have been a member of Voice123 for at least three years, and I have not only seen the quality of the jobs degrade tremendously...along with the pricing, but I am tired of being penalized because I respond to a demo request! I often am notified that I am the client's #1 choice, but just because I don't "lowball" the price for the session at $25, I never hear from them again! The next opportunity to submit a demo may come to me at 2:00 AM, and by the time I can get to it, it has already passed the "half way" threshold, and it's not even worth submitting at that point. I also received the survey invitation from Steven, but thus far I have been too angry to even respond. My membership is up for renewal, but I may switch to Voices.com for a year and see what happens. VOPlanet? True...not as many opportunities, but the price the client is willing to pay is much higher. Regards to all, Dennis
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Jasper on -
I too received the bogus form letter a while back as well, and was also too angry to reply. I thought to myself, "You don't really want to know what I think about Voice123." Frankly, I believe the letter was just another method for the P.R. dept. to glean positive comments for promotional use. Professional voice talents' concerns about V123 are well known, and they haven't listened yet.
The fundamental problem with Voice123 is that it was founded by a guy who is strictly a computer programmer/entrepreneur. He knows nothing, and cares nothing, about the VO business or its realities. No matter what the P.R. dept. may tell you, we are no more than a database and never will be. The only goal is to sucker as many wannabees into paying for a premium subscription as possible. That's why V123 continues to offer free, worthless subscriptions. The vast majority of free-subscription "talent" will have no chance at being hired by any legitimate producer, ever, but there will be a percentage who at least think they might if they pay the yearly $300 to dabble at the business.
I'm not here to dabble.
Steven Lowell likes to dwell on his "4000 subscribers" in an effort to impress you, and/or make you feel like a very small cog in his large wheel. Sorry, Steve, I am unimpressed.
I find about 50% of the "talent" on the site an embarrassment to hear as a VO professional.
I'd be more impressed if the service were limited to the 2000 or so legitimate talents who are serious about making at least part of their living from voiceover work, rather than the 2000 more who are trying out the plastic Labtec mic on the old EMachine in the dining room.
I'd be much more impressed if the service were limited to those who exclusively make their living from voiceover. I'd be willing to pay considerably more than $300/yr if that were the case, provided that audition invitations were only sorted by gender and age range desired. And -- if the owner of the company could remember who his clients are.
Clearly, that is not going to happen with Alex Torrenegra. He is what I call an "entremanure," one who enters an industry without knowing or caring jack about it. It's clear that he thinks of V123 as a matchmaking service, when the reality is that it should be only slightly more intrusive into the process than the phone company.
A couple of weekends ago, I posted my thoughts about Steven Lowell's attitude and V123's way of treating its clients (that's us, Alex) to Lowell's own blog. It not being what Steven wanted to hear, it was promptly deleted. He sent me an email explaining that they didn't need or want my business, and that I had an unprofessional attitude, and he offered a prorated refund of my recent re-subscription. Well, I'm not going to waste my time responding to a P.R. peon. I've been doing commercials for 34 years. I'll keep my name on V123 for the remainder of my subscription, and in the meantime I'll find a better service to which to subscribe.
While I respect Phillip Banks' opinion that they're all worthless -- and possibly even bad for the business -- I'm not quite at his level yet. Someday I hope to be. But I don't think it's going to be Voice123 that gets me there.
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Permalink Reply by Wayne Pyle on -
I'm really relieved to hear that I'm not the only one with these EXACT same experiences, THOUGHTS and FEELINGS about Voice123. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us. It really helps when you're standing in the rubber room all by yourself talking into that mic, that there is a HUGE, SUPPORTIVE community of people to turn to!
Warm regards,
Wayne Pyle
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Permalink Reply by Steven Lowell on -
Good to you all,
Let me apologize first, if I have upset anyone in the past that has posted here.
That was never my intention.
As a former talent with Voice123, I agreed to take this job in 2007 because I wanted to fix many things I found wrong with the site, and I completely understand how and why talents feel like they do.
I am faced with a position of explaining how a system works to many who disagree with how it works. Knowing that system changes cannot be implemented immediately, I aggressively show people how to work with the system.
Many times, this appears as if I am defending it.
When I started out in this business, I was taught that it was a good idea to remember names because it was a sign of respect. I can honestly say that I remember everything I wrote to each of the people who have posted on this thread. One, even offered to push me out of a plane, and another created a profile with his dog! :)
Through every response I give, I try to answer from the heart and what I feel will be best for the talent I am talking to. Sometimes, that gets misinterpreted. Before this job, I worked for AIG, and left corporate America as a side-job because of moral and ethical dilemmas.
In starting here, I promised I would never lie to anyone, never cheat anyone, and always help people work to the very best of my ability.
The emails sent out by me seek feedback, and I answer maybe around 5000 a month. I can honestly say, regardless of what one may think of me, that I have never lied to anyone or cheated them.
That said, this is not about me. It never was, but it is more than obvious that people disagree with the system we have in place that I diligently try to explain.
Let me try and answer some questions here:
1. Diane, regarding submitting more and the penalization factor. We are working on something now, that was tested last summer. I am excited that it will be released, but I know not when right now.
2. Jeff, I am very sorry. Certain emails received clearly show one does not like the site, so to have your money back is much better than for you to be disappointed for 365 days a year.
3. Philip... is right. We are all people working for a living. As a talent before 2007, I belonged to all sites. I have learned that each site has its set of buyers and they come to expect one thing from a site.
Regarding jobs booked on Voice123: We survey talents every month and ask how they are doing. In March, out of 1500 jobs posted using SmartCast or not, 50% of the talents booked at least 1 job. 20% booked at least 5 or more jobs. I know many have repeat clients. I still find that 20% make a living doing online casting alone, but these very same people also have agents etc. I openly admit too...not every job is a homerun. For the 20%-50%, like any Internet site we have to constantly change to keep up with trends in technology and user demand. Alex is very good at this.
I have seen websites work for some and not others. Some people drop one for the other because one has a better success rate. I still say, if you can afford one and you make your money back, you should belong to it, strictly for marketing reasons. It does not mean one is 'bad' and the other 'good'. Websites, like talents, have a personality. My coach in NYC is the one in 2005 who told me to join all of them for various reasons.
I do have to say....that compared to when I started in VO's, marketing, job opportunities, and exposure costs nothing compared to what it used to cost me to mail out demos, travel to auditions, reproductions, studio rentals etc. Voice123, like any site, is a marketplace to sell your voice.
For all, we are only planning positive things for the future that will finally benefit the entire Voice123 community.
If you ever wish to ask me any questions, please do so. I will always give you my best, and as always, if you would like to learn about the voice123 system, I do free trainings every Thursday at 1pm EST. I explain EVERYTHING.
Peace and good wishes to you all,
Steven Lowell
Voice123
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Permalink Reply by George McNerlin on
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Since I last wrote Voices.com has far surpassed V123 as my number one on-line source of income. I am averaging 4-5 good jobs a week. Now I'm lucky if I get one from V123. At first I did not like the "SurePay™ escrow" thing. But when I realized it allowed me to audition for ALL the clients wanting voices similar to mine, I changed my mind and love it! It's a win/win situation - they're helping me make money and I'm helping them. I have also become a subscriber to VO Planet. Only had 4 opportunities to audition in 3 days, no takers. But, as with V123, just 1-3 jobs pays for the service - so the jury's still out on that one. I still don't know what changed at V123, don't really like the system there, but I can't complain, even if I just get a job a week. I love research and appreciate all of your input!
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Permalink Reply by Steven Lowell on
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For now, regarding your profile...demos 7, 8, & 9, are missing information.
Did you know you match better to projects when requests come in, if what you have in Voice Details and My Demos matches each other, AND also matches the project request? Also, the order in which you place your demos 1 thru 9 is like listing the priority of jobs you want to see first (kinda like Netflix maybe). Select the order of importance of jobs to you, with the #1 being the most important.
This helps in the matching area. The audition numbers and submission amount, which I know is dreaded, is something I cannot help one get around. :( I will tell you that if seeker's prefer you, you will come in contact with them more often.
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